Open Source Russian Vacuum Fluorescent Tube Clock 155
ptorrone writes "Hacker extraordinaire Ladyada (whose open source hardware projects we have discussed before) has just published a complete how-to, with design document, on making your own open source Russian vacuum fluorescent clock. The vacuum fluorescent tubes aren't as dangerous as (high-voltage) Nixie tubes, and there seem to be more of them available in the world. If you're not interested in building a clock from scratch, you can also pick up a kit version. All the schematics, source code, and files are available on the project's page."
It has software? (Score:2, Informative)
I've built Nixie clocks, and there shouldn't be any software involved at all. You can get clock ICs cheaply enough, a microprocessor is overkill for this kind of project.
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The microcontroller is an atmega168, just like what's in the Arduino but I didn't see if it was straight C or Arduino code.
LoB
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So, one component uses some code. How does that make the whole clock open source?
Here is the source [ladyada.net]. Just because you don't compile it doesn't mean it's not open source, it just means it's not open source *software*.
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That's called a schematic or circuit diagram. It isn't "the source."
It's not the source *code*.
There are "open source" beers and colas. This is in that same vein. Making a big fuss over the word "source" is a bit silly.
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Open Source has grown beyond just a description of software, it's an ideology too.
And indeed, if we were talking about Verilog or VHDL, indeed, the "schematic" might just be little different from source.
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LadyAda publishes the circuit schematic as a PNG image file and in the original Eagle data file format. She publishes the board layout and the source code for the micro controller too.
So what about this not being "open source" do you not get? The source data for everything is open to you.
LoB
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And what if I want to add a stopwatch or countdown timer mode to it? Or make it count in an alternate base or time system?
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How can this possibly be offtopic?
Grandparent is a post saying "using that is overkill" - a direct response to the topic.
Parent is a post saying "well yes, but what if..." which is a direct response to the direct response.
It can't get any more on-topic than this! WTF!
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It can't get any more on-topic than this! WTF!
Needs more car analogies.
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Or cowbell.
Oh come on, get a clue. (Score:2, Insightful)
I had a digital watch in 1979 that could do a stopwatch and day of the week. Do you honestly think it had a programmed CPU in it? It was all hardwired TTL logic on a single chip. You can do quite a lot with hardware alone - ask the creators of Pong.
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Open source clock firmware? free
1970s era TTL clock chips? good luck finding those (and the displays they're designed to drive) on eBay...
You can do a lot with hardware alone, it's just not usually an efficient use of time, board space, power, or money anymore.
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Most of those old digital watch chips used a surprisingly microprocessorish architecture, and MOS (maybe even CMOS). I can almost guarantee that chip was not done with standard TTL, or even LSTTL. Your watch probably borrows from the 4004 type pre-computer architectures floating around at the time.
There are two big reasons why a standard TTL architecture is not the way to go. Firstly, TTL consumes a great deal of power, which isn't optimal for a watch.
The second reason to use a CPU-style architecture i
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"Firstly, TTL consumes a great deal of power, which isn't optimal for a watch. "
CPU cores in those days weren't exactly known for their frugality. And most ran on 5V , not the 1V available from a watch battery.
What you describe I'm sure was possible but the watch I had was one of the very first that followed the LED generation of watches. I very much doubt it had anything approaching a 4004 in it - why embed 10K transistors to create a CPU core when you can get away with a tenth of that using hard wired log
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I just finished looking at a paper on the subject from 1972. In 1972, wrist watches were already using special bipolar transistor circuits for low power consumption. Standard TTL was unsuitable for the application. There was already a widespread drive to switch to CMOS, starting with RCA in 1967.
The first early LSI watch chip was an Intel 5810 CMOS chip, and it is likely that is the chip in your 1979 LED wrist watch. Specifically, the Intel prototype boards used LEDs as the display for this chip.
Given
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In Soviet Russia (Score:1, Funny)
Time measures you.
In Soviet Russia, the clock protects you (really!) (Score:2)
Clear plastic enclosure protects clock from you and you from clock
building from old parts (Score:5, Interesting)
A long time ago I redirected my child interest in destroying and rebuilding electronics to tinkering with virtual constructs.
So I shouldn't be interested in "hardware hacking"; however, too many hours of fallout, too many zombie movies and too many post apocaliptic novels have given me a degree of interest in that part of the engineering poetry.
Time to go find an open source rifle made from old car parts.
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That would probably be a Sten.
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Get out of here you filthy Lo Tek!
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Well, what do you think AK-47s in Afghanistan are made of? My father told me, that they rip(ped) off parts of bombs that did not explode, car parts, etc, and then used a small hammer and fire, to make real working AK-47s out of them. Horribly unprofessional and very impressive at the same time. ^^
Quite neat, actually. (Score:5, Insightful)
First off, LadyAda is awesome. I really don't need to say any more than that.
I've been wanting to make something like this for a while now. A year or two ago, I bought a big box of the same old Soviet 'vacuum fluorescent indicator' tubes, but I was always having trouble working out the hardware involved, especially the power supply. Using a boost converter is a great idea which might have occurred to me if I had had any experience with them at the time. (Other projects have since taken priority)
My enclosure design wasn't quite as...ah, 'conservative' as a nice simple laser-cut plexiglass box though :) http://media.giantpachinkomachineofdoom.com/blog/2008-06/images/clockwip3.png [giantpachi...ofdoom.com]
Now I'm going to have to take another try at it! :D
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I have made a nixie clock that uses counter chips and not some microcontroller. In any case, to get power for a VFD device you probably need a transformer with 3 outputs or 3 separate transformers. You need the anode voltage (depends on the display, probably 35-70VDC), power for your chips (5-12VDC) and power for the filament (usually 3VAC, it is important that this is AC).
For my nixie clock I used two 220V/12V transformers. One takes in 220V from the outlet and transforms it to 12V (power for the chips), t
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I'd like to see the circuit for your output driver, can you post it?
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Very simple: for each cathode you will need a MPSA42 transistor and a 1K resistor. Connect the collector of the transistor to the cathode of the nixie, emitter to ground and base through the 1K resistor to your control logic.
Here's the schematic: http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/9999/nixie.gif [imageshack.us]
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that's what I was thinking. does each segment draw more than 20mA? if not, you can forget the transistor and resistor altogether, just hook up the filament to the output pin, if you use Microchip PICs. they can source or sink current.
anyway you say that you need 3VAC for the filament. how are you driving it? transistors don't work both ways, with that circuit you're rectifying AC. I think you need both an NPN and PNP to make the full-wave go through.
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This was for nixies, nixies do not have filaments, VFDs do and for them, you can get a transformer that outputs 3VAC.
And you have to use transistors even if the number uses less than 20mA, because when it is unconnected, it has about 100V on it, which I assume the microchip would not like.
Nixies have a common anode, so it's easy to drive them, VFDs have common cathode, so you need another PNP tranbsistor to provide the voltage.
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I really like this project..
One thing I'll test (if I ever have time) if the project can be adapted to run on pinball displays..
Pinball machines in the 80ies also used this type of vacuum displays (Gottliebs had the nice blue ones like shown here), Bally/Stern/Williams had smaller red ones - 6 and 7 digits.
I have enough of these pinball displays laying around (used ones can be found cheap from parts games on ebay and even new displays are still available from pinball parts shops).. so these are probably eas
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They're not rare in Soviet Russia! Joking aside, these VFDs are not that rare. Like some kind of state-sponsored labor monster run amuck, these (and all kinds of other vacuum tubes) were produced by the trainload during the heyday of the Cold War. They can now be picked up for a few dollars on eBay from sellers in Russia and the former Soviet republics. Of course the US produced its fair share of tubes as well, but the vacuum tube era seems to have lasted much longer in Eastern Europe than here (particu
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I would love to know where they are getting that case manufactured. I'm good with the electronics side, but hopeless when it comes to making cases.
You can get PCBs manufactured cheaply in China now (Seeed Studio are good). For cases though the only real option seems to be people like Front Panel Express who only work with metal. I keep thinking about taking a basic woodworking course or something, but I have arthritis in my hands so it's not that simple.
You would think that there would be someone doing low
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Have a look at Ponoko [ponoko.com] - they're great for making one-off items, like this case, from all sorts of laser-cut materials. I'm not affiliated with Ponoko, just a happy customer. Looking at the design of the case, if it wasn't laser-cut, it should have been - a case like that would be trivial to get sorted out with the precision of laser cutting...
What's really awesome ... (Score:2)
... to me anyway, is not just the project itself, but the sheer care taken with the instructions. There's no assumption that you know anything, which for someone like me - who last did electronics at school some 16 years ago - makes this project actually doable.
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That case is really awesome. Did you ever make the case, or is that just a rendering? I'd love to have that clock on my desk :)
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Just a rendering for now. Still trying to get my CNC machine built to cut the pieces. EVENTUALLY it will happen. :3
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I was trying to find a way to contact you privately but no dice. Anyway, I have a 3 axis CNC mill I've been learning how to use for a few months now. If you are interested, I'd love to cut these pieces out based on your design. Maybe I could make a set for me and one for you, or something. Get in touch if you are interested: jason@vonnieda.org
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Switchers that use caps rather than inductors are nice for several reasons, but I've not seen any that can handle higher (over 30VDC) voltage outputs. They may very well exist, but you run into the same issues you do with inductive boosters: you have to find silicon processes that can handle very high voltages, whil
Cute, but how about this. (Score:5, Interesting)
IMHO this [die-wuestens.de] has more geek points.
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I don't know, man. The old IV-18 tubes are really wicked looking. You have a cylindrical glass vacuum tube, and inside it is a slab of glass with 7-segment digit phosphors, shiny silver traces, and extremely tiny, thin hexagonal grids infront of each digit. So, it basically looks like a glowing blue digital readout 'suspended' in a thin glass envelope.
There's also the IV-27 which is larger and 13 digits instead of 8, and the IV-21 (I think it's 21) which is a tiny version of the IV-18.
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That's pretty neat - but, ooooh, I can feel the burn-in from here!
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IMHO this [die-wuestens.de] has more geek points.
I see your bet, and I raise you one nixie clock built in a bottle [hackaday.com].
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[Oblig.] Yes, but (Score:1)
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In Russian vacuum, Linux runs YOU.... Or something like that.
Not so retro (Score:2)
Looks like the clock on my mom's 15 year old oven. Also looks like the display on a 10-15 year old VCR. If a teenager could remember it being new, then it's not retro. Sorry.
Cool project though.
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Then how will my Mom bake me pie?
bad-ass! (Score:2)
That is one bad-ass looking display. I didn't even know these existed... and I can see now that I would want to use them over normal LCD or LEDs, when given the space and power to use them. That looks fantastic!
Stick a color filter over it for even more badassery!
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That is one bad-ass looking display. I didn't even know these existed... and I can see now that I would want to use them over normal LCD or LEDs, when given the space and power to use them. That looks fantastic!
Stick a color filter over it for even more badassery!
The 7-segment ones strike me as rather boring - though admittedly I haven't seen 7-segment fluorescent in person before...
Nixie tubes or (for more general applications) dot-matrix VFDs seem more appealing to me...
or... (Score:4, Insightful)
You could just rip the clock out of an old VCR.
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I understand the standard may be different in industry.
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How can you accidentaly lick a live spark plug FFS???
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It's been a long time since I checked, but as I recall nixies only took 100v or so.
170V DC
"Open Source" hardware (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm not sure that the "Open Source" moniker has any relevance to hardware projects like this. In software, the "source code" is the actual raw material that a complied application is made of. In hardware, the "source" is physical electronic components.
I guess you could call the freely-available plans and schematics "the source" but that doesn't make much sense, because without hardware components, you can't compile it into a working device. So the term doesn't really apply, especially as we've had freely available electronic schematics for decades, and nobody ever called them "open source." This terminology just seems to be a way to seem cool and trendy.
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I have seen (smart) 12 year olds build digital clocks using the relevant TTL/CMOS dividers, with
Trying to get hold of the parts is difficult (Score:2)
Back in the 80s you could walk into a Tandys (Radioshack in the states) and just buy components. Now all the Tandys are gone and Maplins has hardly any components in store - you need to mail order everything which is a bit off putting for people who just want to dabble. Well, IMO anyway.
Re:"Open Source" hardware (Score:5, Insightful)
I respectfully disagree.
RMS himself, the holy fanatic of free software, has compared swapping code to swapping recipes for cooking.
Open source and by extension free software is about unrestricted access to the instructions for making something. If this something is a computer program, a piece of hardware, a meal, a knitted sweater or a bottle rocket is irrelevant.
Granted, the term open source as understood by this community is most often applied to software. But the open source model can be successfully applied to any instructions that can be shared and improved upon. I dare you to dig a little, there is a lot more of this "open source" stuff out there than software.
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I dare you to dig a little, there is a lot more of this "open source" stuff out there than software.
I'm well aware of it, I spent my teen and pre-teen years building electronics from freely-available plans. But we never called it "open source" back then, so why start now?
Likewise, with your RMS example, nobody calls swapping recipes "open source," it's just swapping recipes, or "cooking."
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I spent my teen and pre-teen years building electronics from freely-available plans. But we never called it "open source" back then, so why start now?
Um, because we have a good general purpose term for it now that wasn't in use when you were a pre-teen? /K
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I spent my teen and pre-teen years building electronics from freely-available plans. But we never called it "open source" back then, so why start now?
Um, because we have a good general purpose term for it now that wasn't in use when you were a pre-teen? /K
Because it explicitly conveys the notion that in addition to having open access to this (copyrighted) circuit design information, you also have a degree of freedom in how you may use it?
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Because it explicitly conveys the notion that in addition to having open access to this (copyrighted) circuit design information, you also have a degree of freedom in how you may use it?
But when was that ever not the case?
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Yeah , but "Open Source" is a trendy right-on term (Score:2)
at this moment in time , and goes down well with the we-hate-MS-stallman/linus/raymond[delete as applicable]-is-god fanboys which is what you need to get a story posted on slashdot.
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I'm not sure that the "Open Source" moniker has any relevance to hardware projects like this. In software, the "source code" is the actual raw material that a complied application is made of. In hardware, the "source" is physical electronic components.
I guess you could call the freely-available plans and schematics "the source" but that doesn't make much sense, because without hardware components, you can't compile it into a working device. So the term doesn't really apply, especially as we've had freely available electronic schematics for decades, and nobody ever called them "open source." This terminology just seems to be a way to seem cool and trendy.
So, what can you do with the source code to a piece of software if you have no hardware? If someone just hands you a stack of paper with source code printed on it, and you've got no computer to run it on, what good is it?
Or maybe we're the hardware. Source code is instructions that tell hardware what to do... These are instructions that tell us how to build a clock... Not much different from the control programs that run industrial robots.
Regardless, I think the term applies. OSS is about the freedom t
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You wouldn't say that if you've ever tried to understand or repair an item for which all that documentation is not available.
There has also been open source software for decades, but it wasn't called open source either. It was called a user library.
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You wouldn't say that if you've ever tried to understand or repair an item for which all that documentation is not available.
Yes I would, and yes I have.
Documentation is not the same thing as "open source" it's documentation. By this logic, my DVD player is Open Source, because it comes with documentation in the form of a user manual.
Which brings me to the question... (Score:5, Funny)
Why not? Can nothing be done to correct this?
Over half the "female" geeks are men (Score:2, Funny)
Wheres the nuke? (Score:3, Funny)
A few glitches in the vodka (Score:2)
Nice looking clock, but:
Using a microcontroller to supply the BOOST clock is a poor idea. If the software stumbles and leaves the BOOST line high, you have a dead short across the power supply.
Perhaps fortunately, this might drag the power to the CPU low enough to cause it to reboot, which might restore operation. Or the low voltage might cause it to hang.
Sometimes good old hardware is the right solution.
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Pardon me, but is not the PWM software controlled?
And what happens if:
(1) The initialization code gets hung up for some reason before the PWM is programmed? You're okay if the outputs unconditionally default to LOW, but if they default to high or tri-state, kaboom.
(2) What if the code goes off into the boonies and starts executing random code? I've had this happen where the random code just happened to have some "write to interrupt controller and disk" op codes! Lost everything. But at least I did no
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It's thinking like this that gets my ulcer going.
What happens if:
You substitute a "compatible" microprocessor which just so happens to have been "enhanced" with the option to tri-state the I/O lines on powerup?
Your cat brushes against the acrylic case and sets off a 5500V static discharge, toggling one bit of the PC?
A nearby lightning strike sends a glitch down the AC line and by capacitive coupling toggles a bit in a register.
A drunk driver hits a power p
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Thanks for the reply. It's heartwarming to see a company responding to potential customers.
You might consider a less fatal solution that does not involve the irreversible blowing of expensive fuses:
Between the BOOST output from the microprocessor and the gate of the MOSFET, put a 0.01uF capacitor in series, and a 100K ohm resistor from gate to ground. Total cost: about 15 cents. (The cheapest fuse I can find costs a bit more than that.)
With this kind of AC coupling, the ONLY way
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>The OP said "polyfuse". These are self-resetting polymer fuses, not irreversible devices. Example: http://www.circuitprotection.com/polyswitch.asp [circuitprotection.com] [circuitprotection.com]
I guess my brain refused to see "polyfuse", because it's a very ridiculous solution, for many reasons:
(1) Those devices are thermal-- which means it takes a considerable fraction of a second for it to ramp up in resistance. The microprocessor can't tolerate power dips for more than a microsecond or so, so this solution is about half a
Wait, these are retro now!? Awesome! (Score:2)
When I went away to university in 2000, I intended to use my digital wristwatch as an alarm clock. My Dad insisted that I should have something more substantial to wake me up - as a result I inherited his old bedside clock from ... the 80s, perhaps? Ancient, huge, unsubtle - one of its most noticeable features was a glowing digital display that was clearly not LED based. I had rather assumed it was some sort of fluorescent display but I've never seen another one like it. Looking at this clock the displa
OpenSourceRussianVacuumFluorescentTubeClocks! (Score:2)
Open Source Russian Vacuum Fluorescent Tube Clocks!
Open Source Russian Vacuum Fluorescent Tube Clocks!
Hi, I'm Al Hvorostovsky, President and CEO of Al Hvorostovsky's Open Source Russian Vacuum Fluorescent Tube Clock Emporium and Warehouse! Thanks to massive Soviet-era overproduction, I am now currently overstocked on Open Source Russian Vacuum Fluorescent Tube Clocks, and I am passing the savings on to you!!!
Create that retro look in your living room!
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Have an EMP-proof clock for your bomb shelter!
Sadly I don't believe this clock would be EMP-proof :-(
Did this in EE291 in like, 1986 (Score:2)
I'm really perplexed why making an ancient VFD clock is on the first page of /. I mean, cute project, but I could see this in Make or something, not here.
Who wants to build me one? Contract bids? (Score:2)
I'm serious. I dig it. And I have zero (hardware/electronics) technical capabilities. Anyone want to put a pricetag on a custom built one?
Bids?
The all tube digital clock. (Score:5, Interesting)
That's not retro; it has a CPU in it. Look at this all vacuum tube digital clock [engadget.com] where all the logic is tubes. 103 tubes.
Site Layout (Score:2)
Just clicked on the main site [ladyada.net] and was somewhat surprised by the layout. I don't think I've ever seem someone use that pattern for a website before.
Needless to say, It's been bookmarked for later dissection...
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It's based off the Sephirotic Tree of Life. I blame too much evangelion for this sort of knowledge.
I'm aware of its origin as well as the many other places one might come into contact with it, except, I really wasn't aware that it was being popularized in cartoons, err I mean Anime....
Wasn't really looking to discuss that stuff here on slashdot for obvious reasons...
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Most people don't the skills to write.
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I think he just accidentally out one word. We hacker genii often use language in a quirky way you neurotypicals don't grokq.
Re:And this is worth buidling because.. ???? (Score:5, Interesting)
Here's a gadget that is cool (from a geek point of view), that you can make yourself (provided you have the skills, you should as a geek), that makes other geeks go "ooooooh" in envy and awe, that glows in flurescent blue (that by itself is already enough) and you dismiss it as something you wouldn't want.
Please drop your geek card in the shredder by the door on your way out, will ya?
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Gee I don't have a digital clock in my house yet ...
The digital clocks in my house aren't vacuum-fluorescent displays.
Now, you may be saying, "so who cares about VFDs?" - and from a functional standpoint this is a perfectly valid argument. There's nothing a VFD can do, in terms of practical, display-related functionality, that an LED display cannot do cheaper today. And, in fact, VFDs of any kind have various practical disadvantages - risk of breakage, cathode poisoning, etc.
What VFDs do offer is a rather unique aesthetic - the quantity and quality of the
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I was confused by that also, but it appears it's the particular variety of display tube that's Russian.
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Ha! good luck adding a radio receiver to a clock with both a multiplexed display and 32khz boost converter. WWVB receivers wont work within 10 feet of this clock. (yes, we've tried it)
Interesting.
How about GPS? Is it likewise afflicted with interference?